Search found 241 matches

by Tim Ahrens
29 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: æ has right side group ‘KO_ae’ instead of ‘KO_e’
Replies: 4
Views: 54

Re: æ has right side group ‘KO_ae’ instead of ‘KO_e’

Okay, sorry, the algorithm is still not perfect. In November, I have spent a few weeks refining it but there is still some scope for improvement. The kerning groups in Kern On are not hard-coded at all. To determine whether merging groups makes sense, Kern On looks the kerning values and determines ...
by Tim Ahrens
29 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Demo deletes kerning groups irreversibly
Replies: 1
Views: 18

Re: Demo deletes kerning groups irreversibly

Hello Philip, sorry to hear you lost some data. Maybe to me, it is too obvious that one would keep a copy of the file when trying a new tool. Warning the user is a good idea, I just added a note to the dialog that explicitly says that the kerning groups will be reset. Btw, there has been some discus...
by Tim Ahrens
28 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Group-group-specific kerning rules
Replies: 5
Views: 1148

Re: Group-group-specific kerning rules

You are right, support for numr, dnom, sups, subs and sinf is not very refined yet. As a general principle, Kern On has a list of Unicode pairs, which is then “extended” by applying all sort of features (in all sorts of combinations), to generate additional glyph-glyph pairs. “All sorts” has a few t...
by Tim Ahrens
28 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Disappearing kerning
Replies: 3
Views: 50

Re: Disappearing kerning

Not sure what exactly is happening. As you start Kern On, all autokerning is removed (only models and independents are kept). While Kern On is running, all the necessary kerning (i.e. for the text you type into the editor) is generated on-the-fly.
by Tim Ahrens
28 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kern-On New Update Crashing Glyphs
Replies: 2
Views: 36

Re: Kern-On New Update Crashing Glyphs

Sorry about this. When Glyphs crashed, did you send a crash report? Then I can ask Georg to send it to me, which greatly helps find the problem in the code. When macOS asks you to send a crash report, you can also click on Send , then copy the report and send it to my by e-mail (at that point you ca...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: æ has right side group ‘KO_ae’ instead of ‘KO_e’
Replies: 4
Views: 54

Re: æ has right side group ‘KO_ae’ instead of ‘KO_e’

Hi Claus, are you using the latest version (1.18)?
by Tim Ahrens
21 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Locking existing Kern-On data
Replies: 3
Views: 86

Re: Locking existing Kern-On data

for whatever reason, decides that two glyphs should be in the same kern group, even if the shapes aren't identical, then Kern-On can just use one of the glyphs in the set and ignore the rest. Yes, one would try to keep the UI as simple as possible, and to support the designer’s thinking that the pa...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Impossible to press "Kern On"
Replies: 7
Views: 244

Re: Impossible to press "Kern On"

Sorry to hear this. Without analysing this on my computer, it’s difficult to say what’s going on. Which version of Kern On are you using? Version v 1.16 included some fixes for problems such as the one you are showing in the screenshot.
by Tim Ahrens
16 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Locking existing Kern-On data
Replies: 3
Views: 86

Re: Locking existing Kern-On data

Hello Aaron, yes, extending existing, kerned fonts is something Kern On does not handle well yet. It’s definitely something I want to take care of as it’s a reasonable scenario to assume. So, expect some support for that in the future. One feature I want to implement in any case are “bubbles”, i.e. ...
by Tim Ahrens
15 Nov 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handwritten/Script font
Replies: 7
Views: 208

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Thanks for your contributions to the discussion, everyone! Eben, I just played around with Pinyon, using your source file from Github. (Quick note unrelated to Kern On: the current version of Glyphs 3 fails to compile the features because of the glyph named “NULL”. Deleting the glyph fixes the featu...
by Tim Ahrens
31 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handwritten/Script font
Replies: 7
Views: 208

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Sorry, I haven’t tried this before but I think it may work with Kern On. Have you tried? Let us know how it works for you! Just keep in mind that the idea is to simply adjust the kerning (i.e. set an additional model) for any autokerning you don’t like.
by Tim Ahrens
27 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Impossible to press "Kern On"
Replies: 7
Views: 244

Re: Impossible to press "Kern On"

I assume the “Kern On” button at the bottom of the window was grayed out (i.e. visible but disabled)? This happens if there is a red-dot message shown, then Kern On does not allow any editing until you have looked at the mismatch (by clicking on the little arrow) or ignored it. If you “click away” a...
by Tim Ahrens
27 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: How to Deal With Overkerned Glyphs
Replies: 4
Views: 194

Re: How to Deal With Overkerned Glyphs

More generally, as SCarewe mentioned, if any autokerning is not according to your taste, simply try setting a model. You have probably spaced the punctuation more loosely than the letters. In that case, you need to let Kern On know by setting “special spacing” for the punctuation (don’t forget to do...
by Tim Ahrens
27 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: How to Deal With Overkerned Glyphs
Replies: 4
Views: 194

Re: How to Deal With Overkerned Glyphs

it leads to upper quotes being kerned more than half the width of the period for example, which I find problematic. Really? Yes, that’s problematic, and this is exactly why Kern On has a limit of (minus) half the smaller advance width (of the two glyphs). That applies only to autokerned pairs. For ...
by Tim Ahrens
19 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs
Replies: 11
Views: 602

Re: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs

I couldn't find documentation online, but I was wondering if either of you knew the rough upper limit of how many kerning pairs the OpenType kerning table should roughly accept? The limit is 64 kB unless you use Extension Kerning. It’s not possible to give a number of pairs: Each class-class pair d...
by Tim Ahrens
18 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Is it possible to copy kerning from one style to another
Replies: 6
Views: 257

Re: Is it possible to copy kerning from one style to another

Hi Eben, what exactly do you have in mind? Do you mean copying the sidebearings from one master to the other? Would they have very similar shapes?
by Tim Ahrens
16 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Is it possible to copy kerning from one style to another
Replies: 6
Views: 257

Re: Is it possible to copy kerning from one style to another

If your metrics are shared between masters you could use the custom parameter “Link Metrics With Master”. Then Kern On will understand your intention and use identical kerning. See also this post.

Would that work in your case?
by Tim Ahrens
16 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs
Replies: 11
Views: 602

Re: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs

Also, it would be good to know or see more about your project. Maybe this is in fact an XY problem? There might be a better solution than creating 23M kerning pairs but it’s difficult to say without knowing enough details about the project. I suppose it is some kind of experiment or art project?
by Tim Ahrens
16 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs
Replies: 11
Views: 602

Re: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs

I don’t think exporting a font with 23M kerning pairs is feasible with current technology. It’s interesting to see how hardware and software continues to becomes more powerful and users still push the boundaries, I guess they always will. If, in 20 years time, producing a font with 5000 glyphs and 2...
by Tim Ahrens
11 Oct 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Ignor kerning on certain glyphs?
Replies: 2
Views: 179

Re: Ignor kerning on certain glyphs?

Yes, you can simply say “No kerning for whiteFrowningFace, please”, like this:
Screenshot 2022-10-11 at 13.42.03.png
Screenshot 2022-10-11 at 13.42.03.png (80.28 KiB) Viewed 179 times
by Tim Ahrens
30 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Clicking "Ignore" on warnings doesn't ignore warnings
Replies: 3
Views: 260

Re: Clicking "Ignore" on warnings doesn't ignore warnings

SCarewe wrote: 30 Sep 2022 Hello, I have been running into an issue since a few Kern On versions
Don’t exaggerate! 😉 Yes, this is a bug in the latest version. I have already fixed it in the code, and this fix will be included in the next release, of course.
by Tim Ahrens
30 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Chris, it seems you have a simple solution for your problem in mind, which I fail to see. Sorry about this. I am sure Kern On will improve (in many different aspects) in the next years but I don’t see any solution I can implement in a snap.
by Tim Ahrens
30 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

SCarewe wrote: 22 Sep 2022 You essentially don't have control, no.
Well, you do have control (via user-set autopairs) but you don’t have a preview. This seems to be the main problem here.
by Tim Ahrens
30 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

chrisjansky wrote: 22 Sep 2022 but can we agree that these colliding pairs should not be outputted into the final font?
They are colliding because the exceptions are not outputted into the final font. I tried to explain that above.
by Tim Ahrens
30 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Okay, first thing:
chrisjansky wrote: 22 Sep 2022 Can you advise on how to prevent such behaviour? Should I assign "Model = 0" for those colliding pairs?
No. The best solution would be to turn them into a user-set autopair, as I explained above.
by Tim Ahrens
29 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs
Replies: 11
Views: 602

Re: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs

Regarding user-set classes, this has come up every so often. I See the other thread for my answer: /viewtopic.php?p=1269#p1269
by Tim Ahrens
29 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs
Replies: 11
Views: 602

Re: Handling Large Set of Custom-Named Alternate Glyphs

Interesting question. All possible combinations for 5000 glyphs is 25 million pairs. Not sure whether the system will cope with this but let’s try our luck. My first try would be working with user-set autopairs. As you may know, you can explicitly switch an ignored pair (i.e. without any of the Mode...
by Tim Ahrens
28 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Need help understanding special spacing...
Replies: 3
Views: 299

Re: Need help understanding special spacing...

Hello Brian, what happens if you click “Try again” a few times?
by Tim Ahrens
28 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Different spacing depending on type of glyphs?
Replies: 2
Views: 225

Re: Different spacing depending on type of glyphs?

It’s difficult to say without having the file. If you want you can send it to me. In any case, if the design and metrics of the /O is exactly the same as the /zero then you should not set /zero/zero as well as /O/O as models – one is enough. What happens if you simply switch /zero/zero to auto? Whic...
by Tim Ahrens
22 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

From Kern On’s point of view, “ignored” means “the value does not matter”. It seems when you say “should be ignored” you mean “should have a value of zero”? When Kern On finalizes the font (after you click “Kern On”), it first autokerns all relevant glyph-glyph pairs (those pairs it considers “real-...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

I don’t quite understand what you are worried about.
by Tim Ahrens
20 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

chrisjansky wrote: 20 Sep 2022 "emdash-eogonek" which is arguably a real combination
I don’t think it is, as eogonek does not occur at the beginning of words.
by Tim Ahrens
20 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Btw, this is one of the sources I used when compiling the list of pairs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Summary_table As you can see, quotesinglbase doesn’t seem to be used as a closing quotation mark for any Latin-based language. If there is something I missed I’m happy to learn about...
by Tim Ahrens
20 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Thanks for sending the file. The second pair in your example is a-quotesinglbase. This pair is not in Kern On’s internal list of pairs, it is simply not in the system. As you can see, none of the “Model”, “Auto”, “Ind[ependent]” buttons are activated. Kern On thinks a-quotesinglbase will never be us...
by Tim Ahrens
13 Sep 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Overflow error when exporting variable font
Replies: 4
Views: 367

Re: Overflow error when exporting variable font

If you select 64kB or less then you should not get the error, so something is going wrong somewhere.

Which version of Glyphs are you using? Is it the same error in Glyphs 2 and Glyphs 3?

Would you mind sending me the .glyphs file? Thanks!
by Tim Ahrens
31 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Opening Kern On *immediately* deletes all group data from all glyphs, unless it is re-run.
Replies: 4
Views: 459

Re: Opening Kern On *immediately* deletes all group data from all glyphs, unless it is re-run.

Thanks for your kind words! Sebastian’s explanations are very good (thanks for the script btw!) but I’ll try to dig in a little deeper. Regarding your issues, I understand the problems you are facing but it’s not easy to improve things from my side: As Kern On starts, it deletes kerning groups as we...
by Tim Ahrens
31 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Classes Inconsistency
Replies: 3
Views: 381

Re: Classes Inconsistency

It seems you are mostly worried about the naming of the classes? Not sure I understand your problem but if B and O are in the same class then what should be the name of the class? It it wrong to call it KO_B?
by Tim Ahrens
30 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Is Kern On deterministic?
Replies: 1
Views: 267

Re: Is Kern On deterministic?

Yes, the result should be identical if you re-run Kern On. If it wasn’t then this would be a bug (but I do not think there is any potential for unintended side effects from additional glyphs in the font).
by Tim Ahrens
17 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Large fonts: thoughts and a couple of wishes
Replies: 3
Views: 580

Re: Large fonts: thoughts and a couple of wishes

Sorry this is taking longer than would be convenient. I will have a look at your file and see whether it can be improved. You are right, the time it takes to calculate the kerning and the class generation is non-linear. The number of pairs to autokern is roughly proportional to the square of the num...
by Tim Ahrens
17 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Fontmake - avoiding overflow
Replies: 4
Views: 629

Re: Fontmake - avoiding overflow

Can you try exporting the font with Glyphs (ideally, try exporting with Glyphs 2 and Glyphs 3)? If the fonts are generated by Glyphs without any problems then we can conclude that the problem must be with Fontmake, I suppose.
by Tim Ahrens
15 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Fontmake - avoiding overflow
Replies: 4
Views: 629

Re: Fontmake - avoiding overflow

Just a quick guess: In Kern On, did you set the kerning size to more than 64kB?
by Tim Ahrens
07 Aug 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: RAM usage on iMac M1
Replies: 5
Views: 685

Re: RAM usage on iMac M1

Thanks for the file! I just fixed the crash, it was not related to anything particular in your file, just a common small coding bug (integer underflow, to be precise) that lead KO to book an extremely large amount of memory in rare cases.

You can get the update from https://kern-on.com/update/
by Tim Ahrens
31 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: RAM usage on iMac M1
Replies: 5
Views: 685

Re: RAM usage on iMac M1

Would you mind sending me the .glyphs file? Then I can have a closer look. Thanks!
by Tim Ahrens
29 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: RAM usage on iMac M1
Replies: 5
Views: 685

Re: RAM usage on iMac M1

Hello Fran, 50GB does sound too much indeed. I can have another look at the RAM usage here on various computers.

What exactly is the problem you are experiencing? Is Kern On or Glyphs crashing? Is it unexpectedly slow?
by Tim Ahrens
25 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kerning of ligatures not corresponding to the rest of the kerning
Replies: 3
Views: 616

Re: Kerning of ligatures not corresponding to the rest of the kerning

Just a quick recap: As discussed by e-mail, the reason for the inconsistent autokerning was that some letters accidentally has special spacing. I just implemented a dialogue that will warn the user if they set special spacing for letters – which, by concept, should never be necessary. So, it is stil...
by Tim Ahrens
23 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kerning classes in different scripts
Replies: 3
Views: 569

Re: Kerning classes in different scripts

That said, the above rules are not set in stone. In fact, together with Georg, I have worked on concepts to optimize the kerning subtables, which saved about a quarter of data size compared to Glyphs’ current simple-and-robust approach. Maybe we’ll sit down again and work out how subtables could be ...
by Tim Ahrens
23 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kerning classes in different scripts
Replies: 3
Views: 569

Re: Kerning classes in different scripts

Hi Dino! In Glyphs, glyphs from different scripts cannot be in the same kerning class. This has something to do with how Glyphs divides the kerning into subtables when you export a font. While Kern On creates the kerning classes, it is aware of these subtables that will be created by Glyphs (in fact...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Stylistic sets and alts
Replies: 6
Views: 1179

Re: Stylistic sets and alts

Sorry to hear about the missing pairs. Initially, I implemented and tested the generation of OT feature based pairs in Glyphs 2, and then found that Glyphs 3 writes some kinds of substitutions differently from Glyphs 2. I am aware that the implementation for Glyphs 3 – for complex substitutions – ma...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kerning of ligatures not corresponding to the rest of the kerning
Replies: 3
Views: 616

Re: Kerning of ligatures not corresponding to the rest of the kerning

This sounds strange indeed. Are the shapes of the ligatures really identical to the letters?

Maybe you could send me the .glyphs file, then I can have a closer look!
by Tim Ahrens
21 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

This is an example: Entering “/H/d” as the LSB of the three will adjust the LSB so that H-three and d-three have zero kerning. At the moment, this is temporary, the “/H/d” will disappear. I am planning to implement something permanent, though.
Screenshot 2022-07-21 at 06.51.29.png
Screenshot 2022-07-21 at 06.51.29.png (227.72 KiB) Viewed 1964 times
by Tim Ahrens
20 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

Yes, I will record a video soon!
by Tim Ahrens
18 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Italics
Replies: 1
Views: 407

Re: Italics

Not sure without seeing this but yes, you are probably right. In your font, the distance from H to period is probably smaller than from period to H. You can play around with the measurement tool to check this. This teaches us that slanting a correctly spaced upright does not necessarily lead to a co...
by Tim Ahrens
11 Jul 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

It’s been a while but I made some progress with some sort of autospacing. Let’s use this thread, I think “Normalise kerning to spacing” is a very good description of what we are talking about. As I wrote above, there are several possible approaches, each with their pros and cons. What I have tried: ...
by Tim Ahrens
02 Jun 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Special spacing and related pairs
Replies: 3
Views: 939

Re: Special spacing and related pairs

Thanks for the kind words!

There is an internal threshold for the kerning value but you can’t modify it. This question has been discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=180
by Tim Ahrens
26 May 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Special spacing and related pairs
Replies: 3
Views: 939

Re: Special spacing and related pairs

Hello Arthur, if Kern On really insists that your LH is inconsistent with other models then I’d strongly recommend to try to fix that. Note that you can use the “try again” button or simply set the model again (which has exactly the same effect), and maybe you will find a different pair that is the ...
by Tim Ahrens
24 May 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Hello Kostas, would you mind sending me the .glyphs file? Then I can have a closer look, and hopefully find the root of the problem. Thanks!
by Tim Ahrens
21 May 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Stylistic sets and alts
Replies: 6
Views: 1179

Re: Stylistic sets and alts

Btw, there is some information in the Under the Hood video at around 4:30.
by Tim Ahrens
21 May 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Stylistic sets and alts
Replies: 6
Views: 1179

Re: Stylistic sets and alts

Hi Eben, Kern On applies your OT features and generates all relevant kerning pairs. No need to manually transfer any kerning. Btw, KO ignores the glyph names, all it needs is the OT features. If there are any missing pairs, i.e. glyph-glyph pairs that you think should be kerned, but KO is not autoke...
by Tim Ahrens
05 May 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Class kerning reliability
Replies: 4
Views: 5956

Re: Class kerning reliability

Thanks for your feedback! Here are some comments: The main problem is with glyphs that have the same class but different contours, Right now the class kerning is optimized for storage, not for humans to look at. It ignores pairs that will never occur in real life (or so it believes). More and more, ...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Apr 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: different results for similar shape
Replies: 25
Views: 2395

Re: different results for similar shape

Sorry about this! Not sure whether it was caused by the fact that you had components. Composites are generally supported by KO. Can you still reproduce the problem (using an old file)? My feeling is that you made edits to the font while Kern On was running, and Kern On did not properly update the in...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Apr 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Autokern from master, thoughts
Replies: 2
Views: 910

Re: Autokern from master, thoughts

What I am not sure about yet is whether and how to allow for additional models in the autokerned master. It could be frustrating if you find out that “autokern from master” generally works for you but there is a handful of pairs that get wrong kerning. What do do in this case? (1) Strictly no additi...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Apr 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Autokern from master, thoughts
Replies: 2
Views: 910

Re: Autokern from master, thoughts

Thanks for your comments, Sebastian! Here are some answers: When setting a master to be autokerned from another source, Kern On deletes all models done up until then. This means that one cannot revert to the manually made models after checking out how it would kern from another source. This action i...
by Tim Ahrens
04 Mar 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Do we need kerning against the space character?
Replies: 22
Views: 10182

Re: Do we need kerning against the space character?

Seems that would be #3 from my list above ? I should definitely tackle that but adding support for kerning triplets isn’t trivial. Kern On needs to write feature code, which is not too difficult, but it has to do so for each instance/export individually, as “manual” kerning code is not interpolated ...
by Tim Ahrens
04 Mar 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Transferring models: confusing warning message
Replies: 2
Views: 1124

Re: Transferring models: confusing warning message

Sorry if this message is confusing. "Keep", meaning I keep the current (target) master values? Yes. Or do I "keep" the values from the other master, and overwrite the values in the current master? No. Or do I keep (stop) the values from being overwritten by the other master's val...
by Tim Ahrens
04 Mar 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Problem with "Interpolate master kerning"
Replies: 2
Views: 1092

Re: Problem with "Interpolate master kerning"

Sorry about the late reply. Would you mind sending me the file? Kern On uses the same interpolation coefficients as Glyphs. Can you try using “Re-interpolate” from the layers palette on the Compressed Regular master? Does it look roughly the same in terms of weight and width (except for corrections)...
by Tim Ahrens
22 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

No need to write your own .fea code. The auto-generated OT features in Glyphs will do!
by Tim Ahrens
21 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

Kern On ignores glyph names. Instead, it “applies” the OT features to the list of Unicode pairs. As long as your Glyphs have Unicode values assigned and you have set up the OT features the autokerning should be complete. Just let me know if you think something is missing. I suggest to have a look at...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

It seems in the world of font-making tools, there are two schools of thought: Assume that each user has different needs and personal preferences of how to do things and, therefore, allow customizations – and even encourage them. This seems to be the RoboFont reasoning, as fas as I have understood. A...
by Tim Ahrens
18 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

Quick update: I’m working on it. Nearly there!

Quick question: Do you need 0x13F6, 0x13F7, 0x13FE, 0x13FF? Are they the historical characters you were referring to?
by Tim Ahrens
17 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Wrong Kerning Group generated
Replies: 5
Views: 2556

Re: Wrong Kerning Group generated

it's annoying to keep collision even if a pair will will never be typed. Maybe you can simply try to live with that annoyance? (When I developed Kern On I was assuming that users are rational, but now I am learning that not everyone is. Sorry, I am not so motivated to make “fixes” purely to satisfy...
by Tim Ahrens
16 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

Sounds good! Including all the possible syllable combinations in Cherokee is easy, I just need to add one line to my pairs-crunching script. Plus, there is a Wikipedia in Cherokee, around 120k characters, so that’s not too bad as a start. Kern On likes to know a bit about the real-world frequency of...
by Tim Ahrens
15 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?
Replies: 13
Views: 3227

Re: Using Kern On for other-than-Latin scripts?

The Kern On engine is completely unaware of scripts. However, it will only autokern pairs that are in the built-in list of pairs (plus OT features applied, of course). You can inspect this list if you are curious, just right-click the .glyphsPlugin file, show package contents, then it’s the file pai...
by Tim Ahrens
15 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

Sounds very interesting but isn’t that something that can be achieved with the currently available tools? If you want to adjust the spacing of the root glyph and then everything else, wouldn’t you simply select all the letters and use the Transform Metrics tool? As far as I understand that would hea...
by Tim Ahrens
14 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kern On ‘flavour’?
Replies: 5
Views: 1668

Re: Kern On ‘flavour’?

That said, I am aware that in rare cases, the “weight” of the black is not irrelevant. For example, a high-contrast A may have a smaller LSB than RSB even if the outside of the letter was entirely symmetrical. I have had this on my mind as a possible enhancement of Kern On for a very long time but h...
by Tim Ahrens
14 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kern On ‘flavour’?
Replies: 5
Views: 1668

Re: Kern On ‘flavour’?

That’s an interesting approach but Kern On works differently: it only considers the white space between the glyph shapes, it doesn’t know about strokes, and it completely ignores the counters. Kern On live-updates the kerning as you modify the outlines, which allows you to play around with it. You w...
by Tim Ahrens
14 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

Btw, what exactly do you mean when you say “exceptions”? I am trying to avoid the term unless I am really taking about kerning exceptions in the traditional sense, i.e. glyph-glyph pairs that override class-class-kerning pairs.
by Tim Ahrens
14 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Normalise kerning to spacing?
Replies: 17
Views: 3475

Re: Normalise kerning to spacing?

Yes, this has been an idea of mine for a long time, and I have been thinking about it again for the last few weeks. This is how it could work: The user sets the sidebearing of a particular glyph to “auto”. Plus, the special spacing, of course. I suspect that it is mostly the special-spaced glyphs th...
by Tim Ahrens
10 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kern On ‘flavour’?
Replies: 5
Views: 1668

Re: Kern On ‘flavour’?

Kern On guesses (determines) the strategy through your models! That’s the idea: Designers have different tastes and they express this through the models.

Can you describe in more detail what the “picket-fence look” is?
by Tim Ahrens
09 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Largest size before overflow?
Replies: 3
Views: 1359

Re: Largest size before overflow?

Good question. I should really make this clearer in the dialogue but here are some thoughts. We need to distinguish between webfonts and desktop fonts: For webfonts, it’s up to the font maker to decide which amount of data we want to use for kerning. Careful: This is the uncompressed data size. In w...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Bigger Suggestion Display.
Replies: 2
Views: 1338

Re: Bigger Suggestion Display.

Agreed, it would be nice to make the feedback area more visual. It’s very “texty” right now. On my to-do-list there is even the idea to show the pair in the actual font we’re working on, in a somewhat larger size, but that involves generating and loading the image (which is not too difficult, just a...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Feb 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Group-group-specific kerning rules
Replies: 5
Views: 1148

Re: Group-group-specific kerning rules

Agreed, sometimes it would be handy to specify things such as no kerning between certain groups of glyphs. Similarly, you may want special spacing between certain groups but not others. Right now, Kern On allows to have an individual special spacing value within one group, i.e. if both glyphs are fr...
by Tim Ahrens
13 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: alt + Auto (request)
Replies: 4
Views: 2026

Re: alt + Auto (request)

So, this is included in today’s update (1.09)! See https://kern-on.com/update/

Thanks for the suggestion. I decided to use ctrl to show the auto value preview – it was a bit confusing if both works with alt. Note that it usually takes half a second to display the value.
by Tim Ahrens
13 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Kern On v 1.09
Replies: 0
Views: 1049

Kern On v 1.09

Just published version 1.09. To update, head over to https://kern-on.com/update/ New feature: For models or independent pairs, hold ctrl to preview the kerning value it would have if it was a model. This saves you switching to Auto and back. Improved internal calculation of the special spacing amoun...
by Tim Ahrens
12 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Spacing and kerning
Replies: 1
Views: 1223

Re: Spacing and kerning

I think it’s perfectly fine to adjust the metrics while working on the kerning. In fact, this is what I have started doing since I have been using Kern On! Yes, you can adjust the sidebearings while Kern On is running and it will adjust everything on the fly. The only little catch is that if you use...
by Tim Ahrens
09 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Editing special spacing default groups
Replies: 3
Views: 1691

Re: Editing special spacing default groups

The groups will disappear from the menu if they are not used any more (the next time you start Kern On).
by Tim Ahrens
08 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Prioritise kerning by kern value
Replies: 9
Views: 3851

Re: Prioritise kerning by kern value

Btw, the above post refers to desktop fonts , not webfonts. As I mentioned several times before, there is a completely different reasoning for the two scenarios. If we are looking at webfonts in detail, we’d have to optimize the data size after compression . Practically all webfonts are served as wo...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Prioritise kerning by kern value
Replies: 9
Views: 3851

Re: Prioritise kerning by kern value

Maybe I should explain this in more detail: Glyph-to-glyph pairs take 4 bytes per pair, plus overhead. Therefore deleting a glyph-to-glyph pair saves 4 bytes, and possibly a little more in case it was the only one kerned to the first glyph. With class-to-class kerning, we have to “pay” for the whole...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Collision detection and Kern On
Replies: 2
Views: 1459

Re: Collision detection and Kern On

I just noticed that KernCrasher doesn’t work properly while KO is running. One reason is that while KO is running, it only auto-kerns visible pairs. Then KernCrasher opens a tab with some colliding pairs and in that moment they get autokerned. Another problem is that KernCrasher checks every thinkab...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Collision detection and Kern On
Replies: 2
Views: 1459

Re: Collision detection and Kern On

Hello Alberto, yes, you can use KernCrasher while Kern On is running (or while it is sleeping) to help you find colliding pairs. Any script or plug-in that doesn’t modify the font (or a glyph) is safe to use while KO is running. Don’t switch the pairs in question to independent, it’s much better (an...
by Tim Ahrens
08 Jan 2022
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Editing special spacing default groups
Replies: 3
Views: 1691

Re: Editing special spacing default groups

Hello Alberto, these two pop-up menus allow you to edit the special spacing groups for the current glyph. You can also select multiple glyphs and edit the special spacing for all of them.
Screenshot 2022-01-08 at 20.38.18.png
Screenshot 2022-01-08 at 20.38.18.png (58.55 KiB) Viewed 1691 times
by Tim Ahrens
29 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Wrong class?
Replies: 7
Views: 2730

Re: Wrong class?

Hi Tim, I understand that it's done with storage space in mind, but this system complicates quite a lot any manual intervention after the fact. Is there a way to achieve "human" classes? Or could it become an option in the future? BTW the plugin rocks! a Thanks for the kind words! Sorry, ...
by Tim Ahrens
29 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Wrong class?
Replies: 7
Views: 2730

Re: Wrong class?

Tim Ahrens wrote: > It looks like the pair you are showing is /ellipsis/quotedblleft? I’d say > it’s certainly necessary! Do you think that the number of pairs generated from my file it's ok? I don’t think the number of kerning pairs matters at all. Only the size of the kerning data is relevant. Fo...
by Tim Ahrens
28 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Wrong class?
Replies: 7
Views: 2730

Re: Wrong class?

It looks like the pair you are showing is /ellipsis/quotedblleft? I’d say it’s certainly necessary!
by Tim Ahrens
28 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Wrong class?
Replies: 7
Views: 2730

Re: Wrong class?

Hello Eduardo, don’t worry about the class names. The only thing that matters is the final rendering. Is there any pair that is wrong in the final result (i.e. when the font is used)? The grouping of glyphs in the classes can look a bit strange to human eyes, as it is generated with storage space in...
by Tim Ahrens
22 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: KO on CJK fonts
Replies: 3
Views: 1845

Re: KO on CJK fonts

Sorry about the late reply. Yes, Sebastian is right, the pairs need to go into the pair_frequencies.txt file. I’m more than happy to do that for you (i.e. for everyone). So far, I have only included scripts that I know enough about, as I don’t want to include scripts that are usually not kerned at a...
by Tim Ahrens
21 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Prioritise kerning by kern value
Replies: 9
Views: 3851

Re: Prioritise kerning by kern value

SCarewe wrote: 15 Dec 2021 Kern On was still kerning pairs at ±2 units
Were they class kerning pairs or exceptions? In case they were not exceptions then giving them a value of zero (instead of +2 or –2) would not decrease the file size at all.
by Tim Ahrens
21 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Prioritise kerning by kern value
Replies: 9
Views: 3851

Re: Prioritise kerning by kern value

Sorry, still don’t understand you reasoning. May I ask again: Are we talking about webfonts or desktop fonts?
by Tim Ahrens
21 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: alt + Auto (request)
Replies: 4
Views: 2026

Re: alt + Auto (request)

That’s a good idea! I’ll put that onto my to-do-list.
by Tim Ahrens
09 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Working with collaborators with KernOn
Replies: 8
Views: 3748

Re: Working with collaborators with KernOn

Thanks for pointing us to these scripts, Sebastian! I will have a closer look at them. So, it seems you find there is some missing functionality in Kern On itself? Ideally, the tool should provide all the functionality without the need for additional scripts.
by Tim Ahrens
09 Dec 2021
Forum: Kern On forum
Topic: Working with collaborators with KernOn
Replies: 8
Views: 3748

Re: Working with collaborators with KernOn

"KernOnIndependentPairs" "KernOnModels" Then copy all of the kern data in from the other font and hope that the kern models line up :). The problem is that this would copy the models but not their values! I just published an updated version, see https://kern-on.com/update . Now ...