Kern On

Thanks for reporting this. I can reproduce the problem, looks like this is simply a use case that was never tested so the bug went unnoticed.

I will fix this as soon as possible.

Model removals on start-up should not happen under normal circumstances. Maybe you opened a font you had worked on with Kern On version older than 0.9b17? That was the version where some parts deep in the engine got changed (fixed, I would say). I hope the modes that were removed as you opened the f...

Good point, I have thought about spacing assistance (or even auto-spacing) for a long time but it’s surprisingly difficult to put into an algorithm. Of course, a glyph side that only has negative kerning in all possible combinations must be spaced too loosely (or too tightly if it has only negative ...

3. Should be the easiest to implement: Just take all kerning pairs, “insert” a space in the middle, possibly apply a taming factor < 1, and export as triplets. Maybe I will try this as an experiment. From a typographic (semantic?) point of view, this may not be as crucial as normal kerning, as the s...

It seems we need to distinguish different cases of kerning that involves the space character: Pairs with space that need negative kerning, as the sidebearings of the glyph are always chosen with neigbouring glyphs in mind, which means the “close zone” has to be over-represented. For example, thinkin...

FWIW, just posted a new video dedicated to working with multiple masters.

Today’s update, version 0.9b20, adds support for “Link Metrics With...”. The affected master shows a quick note, and disables editing, similar to interpolated masters. When finalizing the kerning and generating the classes (kerning groups), the affected masters are completely ignored. Jens, hope it ...

This should be fixed in today’s update, version 0.9b20. As it turned out, programmatically setting several disabled masters for an instance needs an array of master names, not a line-break-separated text like in the UI.

Thanks for your feedback!

You are right, Display Regular and Micro Regular should be interpolatable at the same time. Would you mind sending me the file? Also: Which Glyphs version do you use?

Thanks, Malou! Good to know the “Interpolate master kerning” feature is being used. You can only use this feature on masters that can be interpolated. For example, if you have a font with only two masters, it will be greyed out for both masters from the beginning. I always found it strange that Glyp...

Jens, you are right. I need to add support for “Link Metrics With First Master”, just as you describe.

Glad it works better now! I released version 0.9b19 yesterday, which features a somewhat faster (and better) class generation. I hope 20 to 25 minutes is acceptable for that size of project. Maybe I should include a “quick mode” that is somewhat less thorough/optimized? Or the option to fully kern o...

Yes, undo is a good idea. I’ve had that in mind for a while.

Did you set the OT feature while Kern On was running? Sorry, I haven’t made clear that this will not be noticed by Kern On without a re-start (of KO, not Glyphs). In fact, you shouldn’t make any major modifications to the font while Kern On is running as it will either not realize, or possibly even ...

By the way, it’s strange that the lower seven is not kerned at all. Is that the seven.ss01? Have you set up the OpenType feature? It’s necessary for Kern On to know that the pair (potentially) needs kerning. I suggest to have a look at the “Under the hood” video (starting at around 4:20).

Sorry, it is not possible to set kerning groups manually. While Kern On is running, there are no kerning groups, only glyph-glyph pairs (existing kerning groups are erased when KO starts up). Kerning groups are generated automatically when you complete the kerning (i.e. using the “Kern On” button). ...

Hi Christina, thanks for your feedback! You mean, “locking” models would prevent them from being removed if they contradict another model? In other words, you are saying, “I am really sure about this model. If it contradicts another models then please remove the other.” Some sort of high-priority mo...

Can you try again with today’s update (0.9b18)? I spent a few days making the finalization process faster and more robust. If you still have the problems with the new version, i.e. it stops working at some point, please let me know!

pretty useless kerning, like zero.superior fraction That’s debatable, of course. There are fonts that do not make a distinction between numerals and superiors – the one I am currently working on, for example. So we need all superiors before and inferiors after the factions, as the user of the font ...

Sorry, I only just had a look at the file you sent (on 17 May). I cannot confirm the problems you are describing, the numbers can be set as desired, e.g. one-three or one-one as zero model, without creating contradictions. Also, the small caps can be set as desired, without any warnings. Which KO ve...

I will explain that in some detail in an upcoming video but here’s a quick answer: To transfer the models from one master to the other, I’d recommend to: Activate the destination master. Click on the little arrow next to the models counter (at the bottom of the Kern On palette) to show the list of m...

You are right, these autopairs should be generated automatically. It’s already on my list.

You will probably need to set up a couple of models, like one.numr-fraction and maybe fraction-two.dnom.

If you could send the .glyphs file that would be good. It’s difficult to tell from the description.

SCarewe wrote: ↑17 May 2021 Kern On decides that my numbers are too loose and positively kerns almost all of them

You mean, Kern On decides that they are too tight?

By the way, you can always batch re-name the kerning groups if you open the .glyphs file in a text editor and replace KerningGroup = KO_ with KerningGroup = .

I just posted two answers in another thread, hope they also clarify things for this one. Hello, this is probably an outlandish request, but I am pretty confused as to how KO achieves its kerning group decisions. I’ll improve that soon, I hope. |o has the kerning group e (which, technically, makes se...

Adrian Monk. Sorry, feature requests by Adrian Monk will not be granted. Keep in mind that we are typeface designers, not font designers. Are you making fonts for the users, or to be looked at in the font editor? There is no point designing a font that looks nice and neat in the editor – the only t...

L L -6 L Lacute -16 L Lcaron -17 L Lcommaaccent -17 L Ldot -6 L Lslash -13 I assume this is not while KO is running but only after finalization, i.e. with class kerning? The classes generated by KO are still not perfect, I will have another look at that part of the code this week. If LL has -6 then...

I just posted a video that explains which pairs are kerned by Kern On. Hope that will make you trust the plug-in.

No need to create that text file yourself, it is already supplied with KO (but you could edit it if you really want). Plus, I’m always open for (rational) suggestions.

I’d recommend to consider the straight sides as “neutral”, e.g. |H| |n u| d|. This is assuming a conventional sans serif design – in serif typefaces the concept of “neutral” sides is much trickier and less relevant. This means that H. d. and u. should be zero as the period is next to such a “neutral...

Thanks for your feedback!

Can you explain why you do not want the combinations you mentioned? Are they combinations that look wrong if kerned?

That's probably just my eye not used to it and my desire to have clean kerning group names. I imagine that if, after Kern On has completed kerning, I want to make some really detailed changes here and there, it would be a lot more handy to have "natural" names. The idea is that you don’t ...

Regarding the SC spacing, I am not sure I understand how exactly they are spaced, without seeing the file.

Have you set up special spacing for the SC? That will not apply a factor (as you suggest) but something similar to an added spacing (but in detail, it is a bit more complex).

Okay, this is most definitely an unintended bug. I cannot make h.sc h.sc a model without contradicting HH, but I can make h.sc n.sc a model, which works fine, but then h.sc h.sc still gets -20 kerning and ignores the h.sc n.sc model. n.sc n.sc receives +31 kerning. Can you try again with the latest...

it will be possible to not have the kerning groups be called KO_. Is it thinkable to allow the user to rename kerning groups on the fly through Kern On? Can you explain why you would find this feature beneficial? Keep in mind that the names of the kerning groups will not end up in the exported fonts.

some issues here and there, like model .H contradicts model .n contradicts model n. Looking at your screen shots above, in the extralight, your |H and |n are 120 whereas the n| is 115. This makes sense (and I do it the same way), as the n is curving inwards around the x-height. However, when compar...

Great! If you could send the font to beta2021@kern-on.com that would be very helpful.

Three hours is definitely too long, there might be some kind of infinite loop. Would you mind sending me the file? Not sure in how far it plays a role that on an M1, Glyphs 2 and Kern On for Glyphs 2 runs emulated in Rosetta. Have you tried Kern On in Glyphs 3? In that scenario both the app and the ...

Agreed, the pairs necessary for the fractions would be helpful. Maybe this should be generalized to include all ligature-type composites in the font? I’ll put that on my list.

If you have 6 masters and 1207 glyphs the finalization process will probably take quite long, my guess is 10–30 minutes depending on the computer. Unfortunately, you cannot finalize only one master. If you are in the process of playing around with Kern On, and want to speed things up, you could set ...

To transfer models between fonts, you can first show the list of models using the little arrow in the bottom section of the Kern On panel. Then, copy and paste the text into the other font, select them all and switch them to models. This does not transfer the values, of course, just their model-ness...

Thanks for your contribution, Eben!
Do you use positive or negative kerning against the space, and for which characters?

The numbers are spaced a little bit looser (1| = 47, |H| = 41). Simple case: That’s what special spacing is for! Just give the figures a special spacing group (create a new one, I’d call it something like “prop osf” or “figures”). Make sure to assign the special spacing group to the right sides as ...

hardcode capital spacing directly into the kern feature That’s also possible with the help of Kern On. You can space HH apart (but not Hn and dn), and KO will understand that the special spacing within the UC (i.e. in UC-UC pairs) is an independent value. So the intra-UC special spacing could be po...

What you explain is a perfectly sensible approach, and it is supported by Kern On. If you want UC-UC, UC-LC and LC-LC to be just as tightly spaced then let’s start with HH, Hn and dn as zero models. The straights have the same sidebearings (|H|, |n and d|). I agree, and KO agrees. However, shouldn’t...

Regarding the missing kerning for the .case variations: They should be generated automatically. What are the pairs you would expect to be generated? Do you have the case feature defined? To determine which pairs are necessary, Kern On applies the OT features in the font, just like they would be appl...

Thanks for your feedback! The UC/LC question is one of the topics I will address in my more in-depth video soon but I’m glad you’re asking as it helps me formulate things more clearly. First, I should explain that Kern On treats all UC letters as one big special spacing group internally. As you impl...

Good! There is one more MM-related feature I forgot: If you have a font with an interpolatable master (like the regular master in a set-up with light, regular and bold masters) then you will find “Interpolate master kerning” in the gear menu next to the “Compare to” button. The kerning for that mast...

Good question! Multiple masters will be one of the topics of my more in-depth video next week. If you have multiple masters: The un-kerned pairs you set during start-up are set as zero-models in all masters (to be precise, during this stage, models may be removed if they contradict, without any noti...

Thanks for sharing this! So, it seems that here, the main reasoning for any kerning against space is triplets? I had this feeling, too, that we don’t need kerning against the space character out of purely pair-based reasons. Your trick to simply use a contextual space.wide or space.narrow is really ...

So far, Kern On does not do any kerning against the space character. I know that some people do that, however. So, the question is: Do you want KO to support/generate kerning against the space? If so, what is the reasoning behind it? What is the (visual/geometrical) reason for it? What are the princ...

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