Handwritten/Script font

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federicoparra
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Joined: 23 Apr 2021

Handwritten/Script font

Post by federicoparra »

I'm working on a handwritten font where most letters (and their stylistic sets) are connected. I would like to kern non-connected glyphs such as numbers, punctuation and symbols between themselves as well as with letters that connect, but avoid to kern the letters that should naturally connect. Is there a way to do this using Kern On? Or some tips on how can I achieve that?
neveragain
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Joined: 25 Oct 2022

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by neveragain »

Sounds like you just want to disable Kerning for some glyphs (or left / right sidebearings) entirely, check this post for an image ;)

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=948&sid=a52dd051a07 ... 5c5fb65165
federicoparra
Posts: 5
Joined: 23 Apr 2021

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by federicoparra »

Thanks @neveragain. The problem is that I do want kerning between letters and symbols, but not between letters themselves. For example I want kerning between /a and /asterisk, as well as /b and /asterisk but not between /a and /b.
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Tim Ahrens
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Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by Tim Ahrens »

Sorry, I haven’t tried this before but I think it may work with Kern On. Have you tried? Let us know how it works for you! Just keep in mind that the idea is to simply adjust the kerning (i.e. set an additional model) for any autokerning you don’t like.
neveragain
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Joined: 25 Oct 2022

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by neveragain »

I would be interested to hear, how that goes, as well!

(Just thinking here: I feel like you could definitely hack your way through, depending on how Kern On treats your typeface. I am guessing Kern On would try to kern the connections in your font apart, so you might be able to train it so that you are happy with all pairs except letter-to-letter, press the Kern On button and after that sort your kerning pairs so that you can delete the ones with positive kerning. This would break if you were to start up Kern On again, though, I guess. So pretty nasty.)
Eben Sorkin
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Joined: 27 Apr 2021

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by Eben Sorkin »

I was not able to use kern on for Pinyon ( google fonts ) because the model for joins was right side extends and has to be precisely right or it breaks.

But I did a technical production an extension of a different joined script

https://github.com/SorkinType/Briem-Script (*)

Because the joins are inserted as separate context dependant glyphs I was able to kern this with kern-on without any trouble.

* this is a working not the final name.

I hope this helps.
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Tim Ahrens
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Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by Tim Ahrens »

Thanks for your contributions to the discussion, everyone!

Eben, I just played around with Pinyon, using your source file from Github.
(Quick note unrelated to Kern On: the current version of Glyphs 3 fails to compile the features because of the glyph named “NULL”. Deleting the glyph fixes the feature compilation error.)

Using my current internal cutting-edge version of Kern On on Pinyon, it works perfectly well by setting only two zero models: nn and na. The result is that all the connected lowercase are correctly un-kerned (zero value, as KO likes to think of it). Yay!

The thing is, kerning connected fonts (at least Pinyon) doesn’t work properly with the currently published version (v 1.17). Looks like my enhancements of the autokerning engine last week fixed that use case. Lucky coincidence, I thought they were just overly perfectionist minor fixes.

I will release the next update (v 1.18) soon, maybe then you want to try kerning connected scripts again? In principle, Kern On should be able to adopt all sorts of kerning/spacing strategies as long as they do not include inconsistencies based on common geometric principles.
Eben Sorkin
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Joined: 27 Apr 2021

Re: Handwritten/Script font

Post by Eben Sorkin »

Given recent font making history in which as an industry we have tended to make joining fonts like Pinyon ( in which the joins are included with the letter - and not separate glyphs as they are with Breim) it seems *very smart* of you to find a way to permit that approach! Bravo.

Because pinyon's method of connection is so fussy and not robust I think it might still break, but I am interested to know for sure so yes I would like to try this!

But even more, I am curious about how you see Kern-On working with connecting styles in an ideal situation. In other words, in theory, what approach to connection seems optimal from both a technical & aesthetic point of view to you? I admit it is a pretty broad question. But because I am such a fan of Kern-On I am interested in optimizing the design process assuming use of it. This kind of question would of course also be super relevant to scripts that are commonly or even almost always joined like Arabic Devanagari Adlam etc.
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