Feedback/Questions after kerning 8 masters
Posted: 26 Feb 2023
Hello! I've just done the kerning on an 8 master, 3 axis variable font with Kern-On and I'm pretty happy with the result so far. It took a couple days to get everything to fall into place but now I feel pretty confident in the models to let it do the work (with 150-250 models per master, a lot of them being 0 models).
I thought I'd share my experience/feedback here and also ask a few questions.
First, it seems Kern-On likes to tell me that things are too tight when they're exactly the same. It doesn't happen all the time and in every master (so I guess it's a particular model that's causing the issue) but for instance if I have "on" and "bn" and both pairs have exactly the same sidebearings and 0 model, it sometimes will throw one out for being too tight/loose. Which leads me to a few questions/suggestions:
- If the model does what I want on a pair, should I set the auto value as a model to "enforce" it? When is it beneficial and when is it not? Kern-On likes to suggest new pairs that I like the look of already, should I set those? When does it become unnecessary?
- I never want Kern-On to throw out my basic pairs which define the rhythm (HH Hn HO OO nn oo no etc.). Could we have a way to set pairs as "preferred" or "locked"? I don't mind Kern-On telling it can't let me set a model the way I want if it contradicts a "locked" model.
On choosing models, I find Kern-On is usually in the right ballpark for most pairs. I rarely have to adjust the auto model by more than 5-10 units and often it's debatable whether I've actually improved on the suggestion! So...
- Is there a way to flag/list "unhelpful" models, either models that seem too restrictive or seem to be on the edge/causing conflicts?
- My number one annoyance is setting a model (either on purpose or by accident, adjusting the spacing in the font etc.) and Kern-On throwing out 10-15 models that I have to click "try again" (mostly in vain) to find out it wants to get rid of my HO pair. I found Cmd-Z pretty iffy with Kern-On so could we have a way for Kern-On to flag when it's about to make big changes/throw out models and stop it in its tracks by reverting the offending change (rather than having to manually re-set all the now independent models). At the moment, I can sometimes go out of the slider ranges and nothing happens and sometimes it's a small disaster so alternatively a way to point out that there are "non-breaking" options outside of the slider shown?
- I've enjoyed using the spacing feature to check on things like furnitures and symbols. I've read that you hope to make KO remember the sidebearing you enter (such as /H/n/d) and that would certainly be helpful (though much like Glyphs own sidebearing references, it might be nice to be able to flatten them to a figure again). Would it be possible to have a way to apply it to all masters at once? With 8 masters, it was a touch tedious to copy-paste everything.
On cleaning-up/maintenance of models, I found that over the 8 masters depending how long I spent I could add new models for ages with no sense of whether I'm improving the overall model, or changing some existing auto settings:
- Could we have a glimpse of things like "changing this will make pairs such as so and xo tighter" so we know the repercussions/ramifications of setting a model
- I'm certain I have more models than I really need to get the same/similar result, what about flagging those and tell the user they can leave X numbers of pairs to auto and get the same result? The fewer the model the easier it is to maintain/understand what you're doing?
- I'm not a huge fan of kerning pairs for +/- 2 units. It's not a big deal and probably just me liking things "neat" but could we have an option on export to squash those? (or maybe that's happening internally already?)
Lastly, setting the size of the kerning pairs on export is neat but again I think I'd like a better understanding of the process and outcomes: "Kern-On generated 17000 pairs but to fit in the size limit, it only got 10 000. Pairs such as Xj and zQ have been removed and close pairs such as Xo and xo have been merged by averaging". Or maybe an export log showing what's been kept/removed/compressed?
Anyway, thanks for the tool. It can sometimes be hard to know if you're making the right choice with kerning/spacing and I feel that Kern-On is a good safeguard which can make me more confident that my choices are within reasonable bounds.
I thought I'd share my experience/feedback here and also ask a few questions.
First, it seems Kern-On likes to tell me that things are too tight when they're exactly the same. It doesn't happen all the time and in every master (so I guess it's a particular model that's causing the issue) but for instance if I have "on" and "bn" and both pairs have exactly the same sidebearings and 0 model, it sometimes will throw one out for being too tight/loose. Which leads me to a few questions/suggestions:
- If the model does what I want on a pair, should I set the auto value as a model to "enforce" it? When is it beneficial and when is it not? Kern-On likes to suggest new pairs that I like the look of already, should I set those? When does it become unnecessary?
- I never want Kern-On to throw out my basic pairs which define the rhythm (HH Hn HO OO nn oo no etc.). Could we have a way to set pairs as "preferred" or "locked"? I don't mind Kern-On telling it can't let me set a model the way I want if it contradicts a "locked" model.
On choosing models, I find Kern-On is usually in the right ballpark for most pairs. I rarely have to adjust the auto model by more than 5-10 units and often it's debatable whether I've actually improved on the suggestion! So...
- Is there a way to flag/list "unhelpful" models, either models that seem too restrictive or seem to be on the edge/causing conflicts?
- My number one annoyance is setting a model (either on purpose or by accident, adjusting the spacing in the font etc.) and Kern-On throwing out 10-15 models that I have to click "try again" (mostly in vain) to find out it wants to get rid of my HO pair. I found Cmd-Z pretty iffy with Kern-On so could we have a way for Kern-On to flag when it's about to make big changes/throw out models and stop it in its tracks by reverting the offending change (rather than having to manually re-set all the now independent models). At the moment, I can sometimes go out of the slider ranges and nothing happens and sometimes it's a small disaster so alternatively a way to point out that there are "non-breaking" options outside of the slider shown?
- I've enjoyed using the spacing feature to check on things like furnitures and symbols. I've read that you hope to make KO remember the sidebearing you enter (such as /H/n/d) and that would certainly be helpful (though much like Glyphs own sidebearing references, it might be nice to be able to flatten them to a figure again). Would it be possible to have a way to apply it to all masters at once? With 8 masters, it was a touch tedious to copy-paste everything.
On cleaning-up/maintenance of models, I found that over the 8 masters depending how long I spent I could add new models for ages with no sense of whether I'm improving the overall model, or changing some existing auto settings:
- Could we have a glimpse of things like "changing this will make pairs such as so and xo tighter" so we know the repercussions/ramifications of setting a model
- I'm certain I have more models than I really need to get the same/similar result, what about flagging those and tell the user they can leave X numbers of pairs to auto and get the same result? The fewer the model the easier it is to maintain/understand what you're doing?
- I'm not a huge fan of kerning pairs for +/- 2 units. It's not a big deal and probably just me liking things "neat" but could we have an option on export to squash those? (or maybe that's happening internally already?)
Lastly, setting the size of the kerning pairs on export is neat but again I think I'd like a better understanding of the process and outcomes: "Kern-On generated 17000 pairs but to fit in the size limit, it only got 10 000. Pairs such as Xj and zQ have been removed and close pairs such as Xo and xo have been merged by averaging". Or maybe an export log showing what's been kept/removed/compressed?
Anyway, thanks for the tool. It can sometimes be hard to know if you're making the right choice with kerning/spacing and I feel that Kern-On is a good safeguard which can make me more confident that my choices are within reasonable bounds.